I’ve read that containers are preferred for development, but they aren’t persistent and it doesn’t seem like files such as /etc/fstab can be accessed through them when running distrobox (I enjoy editing such files using vim).

It’s also a bit annoying having to enter a specific container to run something like btop.

Are you supposed to layer them with rpm-ostree?

  • @Holytimes@sh.itjust.works
    -1•5 hours ago

    This is the exact reason the entire concept behind a immutable distro is beyond dog shit

    Unless your use case is something like a console where modifications are not intended to happen expect as an extreme outlier. They fucking suck, they make no fucking sense, and just create endless problems if you want to do anything with your hardware.

    Its basically re fucking inventing the exact problem that shit like ios has.

    You don’t own a computer with an immutable distro. Your distro is assuming your a child too ignorant and stupid to be trusted to do anything with it.

    Its security for the sake of protecting idiots from them selves.

    • @TaintTaul@programming.dev
      6•3 hours ago

      Just to be very clear: the name “immutable distro” is unfortunately a misnomer. In practice, the restrictions found on so-called “immutable” atomic distros are very tame.

      For example, on Fedora Atomic[1], it’s mostly a paradigm shift. That is, you can achieve (almost) everything that you can on a traditional distro, the only difference being how.

      So, if we would take OP’s query as an example, they are not able to do sudo dnf install vim btop. Instead[2], they have to do brew install vim btop. Additionally, these changes persist, as you’d expect. Please note that this is just one of the ways/methods you can achieve this on Bluefin (and other Fedora Atomic derivatives). Other methods include:

      • Install within a distrobox and export it.
      • Simply layer it.
      • Make a custom image that installs these by default and switch to said custom image.
      • Install as a sysext.

      As you’d expect, each one of these comes with its own set of tradeoffs.

      1. The atomic distro I’m most familiar with. ↩︎

      2. Knowing that they’re on Bluefin, a derivative. ↩︎

    • Strit
      2•5 hours ago

      To be honest. Immutable distros are not for everyone. Tinkerers especially would not be suited to use them, because of all the “restrictions” in place.

      Better to find another distro in that case.

      • @utopiah@lemmy.ml
        2•4 hours ago

        I’m not sure.

        I’m a professional tinkerer and I run Debian stable. OK ok it’s not an immutable distro but my point is that I do tinker, just NOT with my main OS.

        I’ll tinker in containers, in VMs, in my ~/bin etc but NOT in what hosts all that.

        So I would argue that what’s important for tinkerers is to establish clear boundaries on what they want to tinker on and what they do NOT want to tinker on, what can change vs what should never.

        • Strit
          1•3 hours ago

          But a simple thing like “install a random cli tool to run on host” is often not easy on immutable distros, so it’s usually just more convinient with an oldschool distro in those cases.

          • @utopiah@lemmy.ml
            2•3 hours ago

            I don’t think it actually is. It’s only like that the very first time when you haven’t you this specific distribution itself. Once you know how the few extra step and understand the core principle, it’s trivial.

            PS: I did tinker with NixOS, SteamOS and ROCKNIX.

            • Strit
              2•2 hours ago

              Sure. But you have to figure that out first.

              I’m just saying. It’s not for everyone. I feel too limited when trying immutable stuff, so I stick with my classic. 😀