We’re in the home stretch now! Plasma and Gear apps have branched, which means anything committed to master and not backported is going into the next release after the mega-release next month…
People need to understand Gnome’s goal is to bring simple Linux machines to the masses. I’m not even talking about your grandma or neighbour Joe, they spend a lot of time going after the 1.2B people in Africa and 400M people in South America. There’s a reason they only have one calculator named “Calculator” and not 2-3 like KDE has with “Kalk” or “Kcalc”. There’s a reason they created stopthemingmy.app.
Lots of power-users still love Gnome, some because it they came from MacOS (which Gnome is still vastly more customizable than), and some because the terminal gives all the power they need on Linux. For people who don’t like Gnome, you can still appreciate the sheer amount of resources they spend upstreaming work and keeping a fully FOSS GUI toolkit, something KDE never had the resources to do.
So yea, it’s frustrating see people hate on Gnome when they don’t even realize they’re not the target audience. (I know you’re not hating on Gnome, but wanted to vent that out a bit)
I have to admit I am a little bit of a Gnome hater, because I was a very happy Gnome 2.6(?) user when they moved my cheese (and then moved it again, and again, and again) - Gnome was for me until they decided I wasn’t the kind of user they wanted anymore.
Having said that, I appreciate the point you are making, and I only (tangentially) referenced Gnome in my first comment because the contrast is huge. KDE likes you to use the system how you want. (and it’s one of the things I love about KDE) Gnome likes you to use the system how they want. That’s all there is to it, regardless of how reasonable the logic behind that distinction may be.
It was pretty much the same story for me (although much earlier, in the 1.2 days I think).
Gnome was great but you couldn’t rely on anything. They loved removing stuff to make it more “lean” or changing it to match their “vision”. They didn’t care about their users, only their circlejerk.
I’m not sure it has changed a lot in since then. I’m glad I dropped that dumpster fire. I still have no idea why it’s the default on so many systems.
At least there are many great options for those who want something else.
I think Gnome is great. The workflow is amazing imo, better than a clunky Windows-inspired UX, and it’s nice to have a distro I can depend on being bug free without it being a project that moves too slowly.
And those trackpad gestures. Man. They make even Apple’s trackpad gestures feel like you’re using a £300 Acer laptop.
It’s also nice to have a desktop that actually gives a shit about UX, distraction-free computing, and consistency. It’s nice to have a desktop that encourages great third party apps that integrate well with the system and follow excellent design guidelines. It’s nice to have a DE team that are ballsy enough to go against the Win95 UX paradigm and does its own thing, despite knowing they’ll get extreme amounts of hate for it.
Just because it’s not your cup of tea doesn’t mean it’s a dumpster fire or they hate their users and are doing a circlejerk.
We don’t struggle with the idea of “Arch is too bleeding edge for me, so I won’t use it, but cool project nonetheless” or “Debian is too outdated for me, so I won’t use it, but cool project nonetheless”, so what is it about DEs - or tbh more accurately, Gnome specifically - that has people being like “this isn’t what I want, therefore it’s a piece of SHIT. Why do they hate their users? Why do the users use it? Don’t they realise the devs hate them??”
This elitist, tribal mentality is one of the worst parts about the Linux community, and is, ironically, a circlejerk of its own.
[ … ] what is it about DEs - or tbh more accurately, Gnome specifically - that has people being like “this isn’t what I want, therefore it’s a piece of SHIT. Why do they hate their users? Why do the users use it? Don’t they realise the devs hate them??”
You’re comparing Gnome and distributions which isn’t a very good comparison. Firstly because distributions are pretty much interchangeable, despite what people say, as they all pretty much do the same thing and install the same software, and secondly because Gnome has some history behind it.
In the early days, there wasn’t really much of a choice as far as desktop environments were concerned. You had a few fairly nice (for the time window managers), but if you wanted something integrated, there was Gnome or KDE. And KDE relied on the non free (at the time Qt). However Gnome kept changing and breaking stuff. The users kept asking the devs not to do it, and the devs quite literally told them to fuck off. A good number of people grew resentful towards the whole project around that time (and notably towards de Caza, who managed the whole thing). Soon enough Qt was freed, and many moved to KDE where the devs listened to users, where the concept was to empower and not to coerce. The difference was simply amazing.
I just suspect that you came in late to the show. I’ve had Linux on my desktop for close to 30 years now. So maybe Gnome got better, but it’s too late. They burned their bridges. As far as I’m concerned, it’s their turn to fuck off.
Now you know why there’s bad feelings towards them.
People need to understand Gnome’s goal is to bring simple Linux machines to the masses. I’m not even talking about your grandma or neighbour Joe, they spend a lot of time going after the 1.2B people in Africa and 400M people in South America. There’s a reason they only have one calculator named “Calculator” and not 2-3 like KDE has with “Kalk” or “Kcalc”. There’s a reason they created stopthemingmy.app.
Lots of power-users still love Gnome, some because it they came from MacOS (which Gnome is still vastly more customizable than), and some because the terminal gives all the power they need on Linux. For people who don’t like Gnome, you can still appreciate the sheer amount of resources they spend upstreaming work and keeping a fully FOSS GUI toolkit, something KDE never had the resources to do.
So yea, it’s frustrating see people hate on Gnome when they don’t even realize they’re not the target audience. (I know you’re not hating on Gnome, but wanted to vent that out a bit)
I have to admit I am a little bit of a Gnome hater, because I was a very happy Gnome 2.6(?) user when they moved my cheese (and then moved it again, and again, and again) - Gnome was for me until they decided I wasn’t the kind of user they wanted anymore.
Having said that, I appreciate the point you are making, and I only (tangentially) referenced Gnome in my first comment because the contrast is huge. KDE likes you to use the system how you want. (and it’s one of the things I love about KDE) Gnome likes you to use the system how they want. That’s all there is to it, regardless of how reasonable the logic behind that distinction may be.
It was pretty much the same story for me (although much earlier, in the 1.2 days I think).
Gnome was great but you couldn’t rely on anything. They loved removing stuff to make it more “lean” or changing it to match their “vision”. They didn’t care about their users, only their circlejerk.
I’m not sure it has changed a lot in since then. I’m glad I dropped that dumpster fire. I still have no idea why it’s the default on so many systems.
At least there are many great options for those who want something else.
I think Gnome is great. The workflow is amazing imo, better than a clunky Windows-inspired UX, and it’s nice to have a distro I can depend on being bug free without it being a project that moves too slowly.
And those trackpad gestures. Man. They make even Apple’s trackpad gestures feel like you’re using a £300 Acer laptop.
It’s also nice to have a desktop that actually gives a shit about UX, distraction-free computing, and consistency. It’s nice to have a desktop that encourages great third party apps that integrate well with the system and follow excellent design guidelines. It’s nice to have a DE team that are ballsy enough to go against the Win95 UX paradigm and does its own thing, despite knowing they’ll get extreme amounts of hate for it.
Just because it’s not your cup of tea doesn’t mean it’s a dumpster fire or they hate their users and are doing a circlejerk.
We don’t struggle with the idea of “Arch is too bleeding edge for me, so I won’t use it, but cool project nonetheless” or “Debian is too outdated for me, so I won’t use it, but cool project nonetheless”, so what is it about DEs - or tbh more accurately, Gnome specifically - that has people being like “this isn’t what I want, therefore it’s a piece of SHIT. Why do they hate their users? Why do the users use it? Don’t they realise the devs hate them??”
This elitist, tribal mentality is one of the worst parts about the Linux community, and is, ironically, a circlejerk of its own.
/rant
You’re comparing Gnome and distributions which isn’t a very good comparison. Firstly because distributions are pretty much interchangeable, despite what people say, as they all pretty much do the same thing and install the same software, and secondly because Gnome has some history behind it.
In the early days, there wasn’t really much of a choice as far as desktop environments were concerned. You had a few fairly nice (for the time window managers), but if you wanted something integrated, there was Gnome or KDE. And KDE relied on the non free (at the time Qt). However Gnome kept changing and breaking stuff. The users kept asking the devs not to do it, and the devs quite literally told them to fuck off. A good number of people grew resentful towards the whole project around that time (and notably towards de Caza, who managed the whole thing). Soon enough Qt was freed, and many moved to KDE where the devs listened to users, where the concept was to empower and not to coerce. The difference was simply amazing.
I just suspect that you came in late to the show. I’ve had Linux on my desktop for close to 30 years now. So maybe Gnome got better, but it’s too late. They burned their bridges. As far as I’m concerned, it’s their turn to fuck off.
Now you know why there’s bad feelings towards them.