“But Chrome is slightly more convenient! Why would I suffer tiny inconvenience today in order to save me from way greater inconvenience later? Who am I? Some reasonable person?” - typical Chrome user.
As a former chrome user it’s so real. Chrome connects every device for you and once you ARE in the loop it’s hard to leave it. Wanna switch to Firefox? Oops suddenly your authentication doesn’t work anymore. Oh what about those useful Google logins tied to everything now? Good luck with that.
It took me huge effort to switch off chromium based browsers because the longer you use chrome, the more it worms it’s way into all your services making it harder and harder to switch. I still can’t figure out how to seperate my Yahoo account from my Gmail account
A huge reason I left is realising that if google decided I broke their TOS on something like say, YouTube ad blocking, they can just terminate by Google account and every service attached to it suddenly becomes unusable. I’d rather not be taken hostage like that
Edit: for all the wise people in the comments. I was trying to decouple entirely from Google products, not just chrome
What you’re describing sounds more like over-reliance on Google services than the browser. I don’t use gmail or google logins anywhere, I just have Bitwarder plugin to manage my authentication and use masked emails to create accounts. I did the same in all the different browsers I used over the years and never had any issues with it or with switching between browsers.
You’re right, but that’s still a valid concern. Many people are much more ingrained in the Google ecosystem, especially through Android.
We’re seeing this issue with Microsoft in the buisness space, too.
And if course we’ve been seeing it with Apple for decades.
These massive corporations have a great deal of people so ingrained in their interconnected services, it’s next to impossible to convince them to extract themselves.
This is why the EU regulations focus on “gatekeepers”. Because users will not make the necessary changes in their habits to combat the abhorrent practices in the industry. There is no true free market here. So the solution is to regulate the shit out of these gatekeepers to make them open up and play fair.
IMHO unfortunately most people will always go for what’s more convenient, don’t care about their privacy and don’t mind ads and there’s not much we can do about it. Eventually all the content on the web will be locked up behind a paywall and/or accompanied by nu-blockable ads. Most users won’t mind that. We’ll be left with what we can host/support ourselves like lemmy or mastodon.
Yeah that was exactly the issue. When I wanna “Degoogle” I mean not just the browser, I mean step out of the entire ecosystem
Firefox syncs across devices as well, if you sign up for a Firefox account and enable sync. This works for bookmarks, logins, history, and you can even access remote tabs if you want. It’s also easy to send a single page from one device to another.
On desktop, Firefox has an import feature that will pull your bookmarks and logins m other browsers (like Chrome) into your Firefox profile.
Even if you’re neck-deep in Google services, Chrome doesn’t do anything special.
Yeee I’m using Firefox. It’s just difficult to desynch the Google services with all my accounts tied to it I had to one by one change em or even make new accounts entirely.
The worst is the fucking Google authentication app and how it’s tied into stuff like Discord…At least I’m out of the Google ouroboros now but it was still intensely painful.
I don’t understand the problem. Google services work in Firefox pretty much the same way, yeah? Does Chrome integrate an authenticator app? If som you might want change your 2FA settings at https://myaccount.google.com/security . If you have an Android phone you can get push notifications on it, or you can also use third-party authenticator apps.
…the problem is that I wanna get rid of Google services lol.
Oh, gotcha. I misunderstood and thought you were describing a Chrome-vs-Firefox difference specifically. Yeah, I can relate. I’m de-googling my life but I’m not sure I’ll ever be 100% de-googled. I’m taking it bit by bit. I sign up for new things with different email addresses now and occasionally I’ll change existing services if it’s possible. But there’s no way I’m going to go through my bajillion web site accounts and move them all.
the fucking Google authentication app and how it’s tied into stuff like Discord
The one that implements the open standard TOTP that has a bunch of open source implementations?
You don’t have to use the Google Authentication app for 2FA/MFA.
Now I’m really happy that all the way back in the late 90s I learned as a software professional that depending on a 3rd party for anything essential is highly likely to eventually come around and bit you.
So when the whole Single Sign-On (via Google, Facebook and so on) bollocks started becoming fashionable over a decade ago I just saw it as a single-point-of-failure dependency on a provider and avoided it.
Ditto with Gmail - I’ve been renting my own domain with e-mail service included for almost two decades exactly because my ultimate dependency on that service is a national DNS Registar (not even the provider as I can just move over my domain and e-mail archive to another one) which can’t just turn around and screw customers because they’re the very same one on which massive companies depend for the proper working of everything linked to the domain names (thinks banks depending on them for customers reaching their website and e-mailing them).
I highly recommend the practice on thinking “how critical is this for me” and “what would happen if these people went bankrupt or changed their minds” when you’re considering getting into a situation were there is a continuous dependency on some external 3rd party provider (this is also why Software As A Service can be a really bad idea versus just buying the bloody software if you’re using it regularly and data that you might need for years is stuck in their system with no chance of exporting it).
Absolutelly: need to use something once or twice, it’s fine, but for everyday life or as a requirement for your business operations, depending on an external actor from which you can’t easilly switch and who doesn’t have some kind of iron-clad tight legal contract with you that includes stiff monetary penalties for non compliance (and, even then, they might just go bankrupt) is a pretty risky choice.
Even if you’re neck-deep in Google services, Chrome doesn’t do anything special.
Actually, being able to cast to other devices is very easy to do with Chrome, but extremely hard to impossible to do with Firefox, unfortunately.
Chrome connects every device for you
What? Besides debugging things on mobile devices, I’ve never sought to connect any device to chrome. Btw this exact same process works in FF too. You’re talking about chrome like it’s an operating system.
what about those useful Google logins tied to everything now? Good luck with that.
What? You can still use your Google account without Chrome…
Unless you’re not talking about OAuth. Is it Chrome’s password manager? Because I’m pretty sure that’s easily exportable…
That’s exactly the issue I mean. I wanted to not just move away from Google and Google Chrome
I wanted to move away from the entire Google ecosystem including the accounts
For me it was as easy as download > export bookmarks and passwords. Nothing broke. I even still use my google account to login to some services. It just brings up the google popup and I’m in.
I didn’t have this experience at all. I switch browsers all the time just so I can know how they are, it’s painless every time. I’ve used non-chromium edge, chromium Edge, Brave, Chrome, Firefox, OperaGX, and probably something else. Chrome is probably my least favorite, as it just doesn’t have any bells and whistles.
Oh I was way deeper than just browser
I unfortunately had an account, my entire phone linked to it, my Microsoft account linked to it and even my authenticator app linked to it which was responsible for 2FA on most of my non Google accounts.
It was all interlinked in a way that made removing it from the root hard
I can’t say I relate to that at all. I’m not sure what you mean by having your MS account linked to chrome, and stuff like my authenticator is on my phone, I didn’t even know you could use chrome as an authenticator.
What authentication doesn’t work anymore in FF…?
We can’t forget that a lot of people have absolutely no idea that this is happening or what it means. Many folks just think the Chrome icon is how you access the internet and have no idea that there are other options. Helping to educate those folks is going to be a significant part of minimizing Chrome’s dominance.
This comment is 20 years old if you replace the word Chrome with Internet Explorer.
As true now as it was then.
It was literally in the chrome “manifesto” when it launched.
I use Edge. Seems to be working out for me pretty good.
Edge is chromium btw
with microsoft’s crapware added instead.
the vertical tabs are fantastic but can’t stand using MS. then i discovered Arc and never looked back. lots of super cool novel ideas coming out of that team. it is based on chromium though. but it’s sooo niiiice :/
I’ve been removing Google services from my life bit by bit over the past year, and I have to say it is crazy how hard it actually is! They have inserted themselves into so many digital workflows, securing monopoly positions and preventing the rise of competitors and open ecosystems. In many areas the only alternatives are other tech giants, or accepting feature downgrades and having to set things up manually.
I’m really glad that the browser is one area where the transition is actually very simple and straightforward!
Yeah, I’ll never use Chrome again. Google has always been shady, but this latest round of anti-features is unbelievable. I’m shocked there’s been no anti-trust suits related to what they’re doing with Chrome. Firefox is just a better browser with way more security options and extension support. That alone is enough for me to stick with it.
Firefox has always been great to use for me.
Chrome: First-party spyware.
If Firefox goes away, I’ll use Epiphany or Konquerer before I subject myself to anything that makes me view ads.
I’ve used Firefox for years. It’s always been the underdog imo.
If it ever becomes the top dog, I’ll switch! To the next privacy underdog. More competition is good.
I’ve read so many bs paid-off articles recently how chrome is so much better than firefox, or firefox has nothing left to give to its users
Made the switch to Firefox last year. Love, love, love the freshness and versatility of the browser! Also add-ons for mobile!!!
Chrome is the new reddit
Lots of people can’t just straight up ditch it. I have had multiple websites just don’t work with Firefox regardless of whatever add-ons I put. For me I just go into a Windows sandbox, but there’s people who are not that tech savvy and it’s often forced on them. Also iirc most schools have chrome books they let students use. So it’s basically forced onto people.
Do you have any examples? I have used Firefox for years and never experienced this, nor heard of anyone I know who uses Firefox experiencing this.
Not the commenter, but…
I play tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder 2e for those care) online with some friends, and we use a website which hosts the program (forge-vtt.com).
For the life of me, I cannot get it to behave on Firefox. Maps will be pitch black while on Chrome they render perfectly. I’ve tried every permutation of browser setting and extension toggling I can think of to no avail.
Tried switching off hardware acceleration?
Yup, that was the common suggestion I was finding, but no luck with it on or off.
I’ve hit the odd site where a menu doesn’t work the way it should, the payment form doesn’t work, overall form validation is wonky, or the captcha doesn’t work. I attribute most of these to slight nuances in javascript between browsers.
I’m a (old, grey) dev, and I’ve had to shame colleagues into testing in mobile browsers other than Chrome and Safari.
I love iOS, but I gotta bring up that other browsers on iOS are all Safari with a skin.
Sonys website immediately comes to mind
Trying to get my account back for my PS5 forced me to use edge for it to work at all
And then to use edge on my wife’s PC because something I have installed REALLY pisses Sony off
Oftentimes, when I use Firefox (Main browser on my phone) things just don’t render/show up. One thing I noticed was when I input my area code to find a package distribution center, and it straight up didn’t show. Iirc it relied on Google maps for showing these places.
It worked in Chrome. Not pointing any fingers, it’s just odd, is what I’m saying.
I use Firefox except for one thing: web serial. Chrome is the only browser that supports it. Luckily you only need it the when setting up an ESP32 for the first time and can do updates wirelessly.
Today there was a page on my bank that just would not load in Firefox even though the rest of the site was fine. Switched to Chrome and it worked fine. I only use Chrome in these situations.
This is the Proxmox console on any of my VMs or LXCs in Firefox. Works just peachy in any Chromium-based browser.
This is fixable. Firefox is blocking HTML5 canvas stuff. I found a screenshot that shows you what to do: https://imgur.com/a/hdvyBtx
Thanks mate. Fixed it right up.
If a website or app doesn’t test in Firefox, I avoid it. That’s something I run into like once a year, and I just use edge once if I need to, and avoid that website or app in the future. It’s not hard to support Firefox, it’s just a shitty ass business decision not to
Use a Chromium fork instead if you’re having so much trouble. Thorium is a decent alternative.
I have had multiple websites just don’t work with Firefox regardless of whatever add-ons I put.
Have you tried to change the browser’s user agent ?
We really need more browser engines floating around.
As of now we really only have 3, Webkit,
FirefoxGecko, andChromiumBlink.Everything is based on these 3. And I know, technically chromium and firefox are both based on webkit, but they’re so far gone from webkit they function as their own engines.
Firefox isn’t based on WebKit. Maybe you’re thinking Safari.
Ultimately you really only have KHTML (what Webkit was forked from), Gecko, Triton (IE classic), and I can’t recall what the new (now dead) engine in IE11 was called. The rest are forks, mostly of Webkit/KHTML.
I guess there’s Ladybird and Servo too, but they are a way still from being used as a daily driver.
I doubt that’s what they meant since Safari currently uses WebKit. But yeah, maybe they meant how WebKit is a fork of KHTML and Chrome is a fork of WebKit.
tbh i think it would be better if there was a single collaborative engine instead, owned by a non-profit company like The Linux Foundation
maybe the W3C could establish their own but idk if they even do anything these days
In this case I still feel like that’s an improvement.
Embrace extend extinguish
It’s almost already too late at this point
Not going to lie, I really hate when the internet gets a new favorite phrase. Destroys discussion on the subjects and feels like it’s a race for commenters to say the hit phrase.
Lemmy is chock full of stupid people on the right team for the wrong reasons. They treat switching to Linux and FF the same way someone would declare they gave their life to Jesus Christ.
Most of them can’t even explain why something is good or bad without resorting to the catch phrase of the day. “Enshittification”, “EEE”, “Chrome bad cuz capitalism or something, gib updoots.”
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO GOOGLE!!!
PLAY STUPID GAMES,
I hate when that happens too, it’s the enshittification of the discussions.
If what you were gonna say is quashed by people knowing the big corpo tricks and treachery, then chances are what you had to say served no interests but corpo interest to begin with.
Username checks out.
Maybe we’re just tired of sheep. Even sheep that happened to end up on the right side.
At least he’s honest. Props for that.
I mean he’s dead wrong, but the user name is refreshing.
You’re doing an awful lot of Baaaa-ing over there to cry about other people being sheep.
It’s not. In the late 90s it was pretty much just IE after Netscape died. Mozilla came from the ashes.
Literally. It was originally built on the Netscape engine before making Gecko and transitioning to that.
extinguishing Chromium is the goal, isn’t it?
As of now we really only have 3, Webkit, Firefox, and Chromium.
Webkit is the only browser engine in that list; the other 2 are browsers, not engines. Firefox uses the Gecko engine. Chrome/chromium use Blink engine.
Gecko came from Netscape. Webkit came from KHTML. Pretty sure Gecko/Firefox are not Webkit based. Blink is though.
We really need more browser engines floating around.
No don’t
Yes, we do. The lack of competition is letting Google consolidate power.
I think their point is that it’s going to fragment things for web developers and make stuff more difficult to manage.
Not if things are written to standards.
Well of course. Now all your traffic goes through proxies to Google’s servers for analytics.
100℅ data harvesting.
Genius move by Google. Even calls it a security/privacy measure!
They will succeed too. Most of the human race are Neanderthals anyway. Couldn’t care less.
Don’t Be Evil!
