I would hope so. I think it would be the right thing to do. But I don’t think Democrats would see all the “instant landslide wins” that are talked about. I don’t think they can accurately predict how that will go. I just don’t buy that the average non-voter is definitely voting Democrat.

But again - we should push for it because I think it’s the right thing to do, not because I think it’s good strategy.

I don’t think this is clear cut anymore. Low information voters broke very hard for Trump. Democrats have work to do to win back the average voter, but the adage of “we win when people turn out” broke in this last election.

Democrats need to get off their ass and offer something better. The fact that Trump won so handily should be a damn wake up call that they are out of touch. Republicans message sucks ass, but it still beat the hell out of Democrats. The party leadership needs an overhaul because they are floundering and trotting out these old adages excuses how piss poor they’ve done leading the party.

No.

And by no I mean we’re not just now asking that. A lot of us already knew we were the baddies. We have been.

It’s 2 of 3

I’m pretty shocked that you’re getting downvoted for saying that a murder might not be the way to invoke change.

That’s pretty nuts to me. Everyone seems like they are trying to justify this… Why are we justifying murder? People can be pretty devoid of empathy. I understand that people want change, and that we need it. I worked in health insurance and know how wasteful it is and how much pain it causes.

Pseudo-celebrating a murder and trying to back-justify it is about the same as actively hoping/campaigning that it happens. It honestly seems like some people are on here with the mentality that any CEO should be moderately expecting to be murdered, and that it is acceptable to live in a world that operates that way.

I mean the polls for Biden were bad and getting worse. Harris was only down a couple points… Biden was down double digits. I hate to say it, but with the 2 point polling error, Biden had 0 path to make it. I don’t know a single state that he would have taken off of Trump.

I have to say this is not a good take. Polls aren’t all the same, but news outlets treat them like they are. Even the same pollsters come up with slightly different numbers each time they run them.

Because there is a certain amount of uncertainty doesn’t make them invalid. We just need to be more educated on filtering the good from the bad.

You sort of have 2 options:

1. Get educated on polling errors, the statistics, and the methodologies of the polls and arrive at your own conclusions.

2. Ignore anything written by the main media outlets about polls, because looking at a single poll is really dumb.

They definitely do matter, and there’s validity to them, but they don’t claim to be the exact truth. If you know how to use them, they are quite helpful.

These are great points. I’ll have to think on this a bit further - thanks for the info!

I see your points here. I don’t think they are wrong, but I have a different opinion on Trump’s election.

I think the onset of social media created a real shit storm of misinformation particularly during the Obama years. I don’t think it was backlash because he was black (though I admit this is not knowable, just my opinion), but more because of the overall grievance with how things operate.

You can’t really separate race out of the equation, because I think Democrats had good messaging showing the effects of institutional racism and sexism against minority groups, particularly at a systemic level. However, there was a massive concentration of wealth in America at the same time.

Trumo came along and his message wasn’t really that novel. He just said hey, this shit sucks for everyone, not just minorities. White people are getting screwed too. And I’m the guy that’s going to fight for the rural voter.

I take your point that it’s not outright racism. It’s not someone saying I’m not voting for this person solely because they are X, it’s some end around way of going about it. But I think Trump played the White Greivance card and I think Democrats are getting a little better at leaning into it. The unfortunate truth is that both things are totally true. White people are getting screwed (concentration of wealth to hover levels) AND minorities groups are getting screwed (because of systematic racist effects that are still residual in daily life for them).

As I’m talking this out, I’m not sure where to land. There’s multiple pieces here that intersect with race, but I’m not sure they are the core tenant. I think there might be some voters who realize that everyone is getting screwed, but maybe worry that Harris would prioritize racial issues before overall everyone getting boned issues. Maybe that’s the group?

Didn’t come to a great conclusion, but your comment had some layers to it so it got me thinking.

I think you skipped part of the argument. I’m sure those people exist, but what about the number of disengaged voters who were over Joe Biden or disagreed with him on various issues? I think the number of votes lost because of race or gender is not 0, but the gains through reinvigoration are far, far higher.

Right… We become beholden to the laggards of social progress because we think we can’t win without them, and we alienate and stagnate the progress of those doing the most.

This is a hilarious misreading of polling data. Kamala may not win, but her percentage chance to win might be double or more of what Bidens was.

People I follow were estimating Biden at 10-15% by the time the election rolled around. All the models assume that a candidate would run a normal campaign. Something that he is not capable of doing.

How many people, realistically, would vote for a white male Democrat but NOT a non-white female?

People are talking about this, but I don’t know who this voter is. The hard line racists and sexists were not moderates, they’re all already Republican.

There are far more democrats that were against Biden because of his age than would be against Harris as a woman. This is a net gain. Fuck the people who won’t vote for her along gender or racial lines. I don’t want to try and appease them.

Give people something to vote FOR rather than vote against.

You clearly didn’t even read it. I addressed that point specifically.

I’m not immune to criticism or critique, but if you’re going to respond, it’s good to know what you are responding to, or you look a bit foolish when you asked a question directly answered in the text.

You don’t even have to engage with the post, but not reading and engaging is what’s led to the collapse of good political discourse.

This is the dumbest shit and we need to fucking grow up a bit. These “questions” are asinine and not that hard to explain.

1. Not denying the incident was reported, but there’s a heavy insinuation here that this was set up or manufactured. If so… They needed an entire Secret Service detail, local event police and everyone standing by to be in on it. A couple hundred people are going to be involved and no one leaks it?

2. “Supposed” gunman. I like how you pivot from “this is probably set up” to “ok even if it was real Trump is capable of worse”

3. Again, the insinuation of an inside job here. We’re going to involve a hundred or more people and no one thought it would be a problem to kill a bystander? Or the gunman was so good he killed a specific plant? And they had a 100% success rate… No one heard the plan and thought “oh this is a bad idea” and spoke out about it?

4. Big difference between deleting text messages and MURDERING AN AMERICAN to further a political agenda.

5. Yes. Things happen all the time. Trump people are saying this is to distract from Biden being inept. There’s always a convenient time.

6. Yes you dumbshit he was concerned about his hat because they already had the all clear. The shooter got taken out in seconds. They wouldn’t have moved Trump. And they all were saying it was all clear. Also have you ever seen people in an absolute panic? Not the most rational state. Same thing with his shoes. That’s ALSO why he took the photo op. They all dove on top of him. They figured out the shooter’s location and took him down before Trump even got up.

There’s pictures of the fucking bullet in flight. So either that was ALSO manufactured (a member of the press willingly heard the plan ahead of time and doctored a photo or they actually shot a bullet inches away from Trumps head AND captured it). But no let’s just get Trump, a bumbly ass fuck to orchestrate this perfectly. I’m sure he had it a planned to go down, and everyone covered him and he pulled out a razor blade, cut his ear, and put it away, all perfectly executed and no one caught anything on camera from any of the dozens of angles.

This shit is so fucking stupid and I’m so sick of hearing about it. These points all rely on the most ass backwards way of thinking where dozens of people are in on this conspiracy and relies on all of them bring cool with killing someone to make it good for Trump.

Get this shit outta here. This doesn’t deserve the pixels on the screen used to illuminate this nonsense. Be a fucking grown up. We’re going to have to figure out a real way to beat Trump, not pretend this was some false flag bullshit. Accept reality. Be a goddamn adult.

I’m not even saying you’re wrong for questioning, but I am saying you are wrong because the sheer volume of things that would need to occur for this theory to be even remotely possible is so ridiculous, I would consider aliens an equally plausible situation.

This is the dumbest shit and we need to fucking grow up a bit. These “questions” are asinine and not that hard to explain.

1. Not denying the incident was reported, but there’s a heavy insinuation here that this was set up or manufactured. If so… They needed an entire Secret Service detail, local event police and everyone standing by to be in on it. A couple hundred people are going to be involved and no one leaks it?

2. “Supposed” gunman. I like how you pivot from “this is probably set up” to “ok even if it was real Trump is capable of worse”

3. Again, the insinuation of an inside job here. We’re going to involve a hundred or more people and no one thought it would be a problem to kill a bystander? Or the gunman was so good he killed a specific plant? And they had a 100% success rate… No one heard the plan and thought “oh this is a bad idea” and spoke out about it?

4. Big difference between deleting text messages and MURDERING AN AMERICAN to further a political agenda.

5. Yes. Things happen all the time. Trump people are saying this is to distract from Biden being inept. There’s always a convenient time.

6. Yes you dumbshit he was concerned about his hat because they already had the all clear. The shooter got taken out in seconds. They wouldn’t have moved Trump. And they all were saying it was all clear. Also have you ever seen people in an absolute panic? Not the most rational state. Same thing with his shoes. That’s ALSO why he took the photo op. They all dove on top of him. They figured out the shooter’s location and took him down before Trump even got up.

There’s pictures of the fucking bullet in flight. So either that was ALSO manufactured (a member of the press willingly heard the plan ahead of time and doctored a photo or they actually shot a bullet inches away from Trumps head AND captured it). But no let’s just get Trump, a bumbly ass fuck to orchestrate this perfectly. I’m sure he had it a planned to go down, and everyone covered him and he pulled out a razor blade, cut his ear, and put it away, all perfectly executed and no one caught anything on camera from any of the dozens of angles.

This shit is so fucking stupid and I’m so sick of hearing about it. These points all rely on the most ass backwards way of thinking where dozens of people are in on this conspiracy and relies on all of them bring cool with killing someone to make it good for Trump.

Get this shit outta here. This doesn’t deserve the pixels on the screen used to illuminate this nonsense. Be a fucking grown up. We’re going to have to figure out a real way to beat Trump, not pretend this was some false flag bullshit. Accept reality. Be a goddamn adult.

I’m not even saying you’re wrong for questioning, but I am saying you are wrong because the sheer volume of things that would need to occur for this theory to be even remotely possible is so ridiculous, I would consider aliens an equally plausible situation.

This is the dumbest shit and we need to fucking grow up a bit. These “questions” are asinine and not that hard to explain.

1. Not denying the incident was reported, but there’s a heavy insinuation here that this was set up or manufactured. If so… They needed an entire Secret Service detail, local event police and everyone standing by to be in on it. A couple hundred people are going to be involved and no one leaks it?

2. “Supposed” gunman. I like how you pivot from “this is probably set up” to “ok even if it was real Trump is capable of worse”

3. Again, the insinuation of an inside job here. We’re going to involve a hundred or more people and no one thought it would be a problem to kill a bystander? Or the gunman was so good he killed a specific plant? And they had a 100% success rate… No one heard the plan and thought “oh this is a bad idea” and spoke out about it?

4. Big difference between deleting text messages and MURDERING AN AMERICAN to further a political agenda.

5. Yes. Things happen all the time. Trump people are saying this is to distract from Biden being inept. There’s always a convenient time.

6. Yes you dumbshit he was concerned about his hat because they already had the all clear. The shooter got taken out in seconds. They wouldn’t have moved Trump. And they all were saying it was all clear. Also have you ever seen people in an absolute panic? Not the most rational state. Same thing with his shoes. That’s ALSO why he took the photo op. They all dove on top of him. They figured out the shooter’s location and took him down before Trump even got up.

There’s pictures of the fucking bullet in flight. So either that was ALSO manufactured (a member of the press willingly heard the plan ahead of time and doctored a photo or they actually shot a bullet inches away from Trumps head AND captured it). But no let’s just get Trump, a bumbly ass fuck to orchestrate this perfectly. I’m sure he had it a planned to go down, and everyone covered him and he pulled out a razor blade, cut his ear, and put it away, all perfectly executed and no one caught anything on camera from any of the dozens of angles.

This shit is so fucking stupid and I’m so sick of hearing about it. These points all rely on the most ass backwards way of thinking where dozens of people are in on this conspiracy and relies on all of them bring cool with killing someone to make it good for Trump.

Get this shit outta here. This doesn’t deserve the pixels on the screen used to illuminate this nonsense. Be a fucking grown up. We’re going to have to figure out a real way to beat Trump, not pretend this was some false flag bullshit. Accept reality. Be a goddamn adult.

I’m not even saying you’re wrong for questioning, but I am saying you are wrong because the sheer volume of things that would need to occur for this theory to be even remotely possible is so ridiculous, I would consider aliens an equally plausible situation.

This is the dumbest shit and we need to fucking grow up a bit. These “questions” are asinine and not that hard to explain.

1. Not denying the incident was reported, but there’s a heavy insinuation here that this was set up or manufactured. If so… They needed an entire Secret Service detail, local event police and everyone standing by to be in on it. A couple hundred people are going to be involved and no one leaks it?

2. “Supposed” gunman. I like how you pivot from “this is probably set up” to “ok even if it was real Trump is capable of worse”

3. Again, the insinuation of an inside job here. We’re going to involve a hundred or more people and no one thought it would be a problem to kill a bystander? Or the gunman was so good he killed a specific plant? And they had a 100% success rate… No one heard the plan and thought “oh this is a bad idea” and spoke out about it?

4. Big difference between deleting text messages and MURDERING AN AMERICAN to further a political agenda.

5. Yes. Things happen all the time. Trump people are saying this is to distract from Biden being inept. There’s always a convenient time.

6. Yes you dumbshit he was concerned about his hat because they already had the all clear. The shooter got taken out in seconds. They wouldn’t have moved Trump. And they all were saying it was all clear. Also have you ever seen people in an absolute panic? Not the most rational state. Same thing with his shoes. That’s ALSO why he took the photo op. They all dove on top of him. They figured out the shooter’s location and took him down before Trump even got up.

There’s pictures of the fucking bullet in flight. So either that was ALSO manufactured (a member of the press willingly heard the plan ahead of time and doctored a photo or they actually shot a bullet inches away from Trumps head AND captured it). But no let’s just get Trump, a bumbly ass fuck to orchestrate this perfectly. I’m sure he had it a planned to go down, and everyone covered him and he pulled out a razor blade, cut his ear, and put it away, all perfectly executed and no one caught anything on camera from any of the dozens of angles.

This shit is so fucking stupid and I’m so sick of hearing about it. These points all rely on the most ass backwards way of thinking where dozens of people are in on this conspiracy and relies on all of them bring cool with killing someone to make it good for Trump.

Get this shit outta here. This doesn’t deserve the pixels on the screen used to illuminate this nonsense. Be a fucking grown up. We’re going to have to figure out a real way to beat Trump, not pretend this was some false flag bullshit. Accept reality. Be a goddamn adult.

I’m not even saying you’re wrong for questioning, but I am saying you are wrong because the sheer volume of things that would need to occur for this theory to be even remotely possible is so ridiculous, I would consider aliens an equally plausible situation.

I think you’re applying your own viewpoint here to the general public.

I don’t enjoy wrestling. I also don’t enjoy reality TV, teen dramas, horror shows, or European Football. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have value.

If TV needs to provide some infallible, logical benefit to be worth something, then every show is in trouble. It’s practically all made up stories about nothing that matters.

This is one of the narrow times that “the customer is always right” applies correctly. It doesn’t matter if it’s “good” by any one person’s definition. If people watch, it has value.

I’d pay good money to see high quality Starcraft 2 tournaments on TV. I doubt many other people would. That’s how value is determined.

First episode on the new network - The Problem With Apple