Linux needs to grow. Stop telling people it’s ‘tech-y’ or acting like you’re more advanced for using it, you are scaring away people. Linux Mint can be used by a senile person perfectly.
Explain shortly the benefits, ‘faster, more secure, easier to use, main choices of professionals and free’. Ask questions that let you know if they need to dual boot, ‘do you use Adobe, anti-cheat games, or Microsoft Office’, ‘how new is your computer’, ‘do you use a Mac’.
And most importantly, offer to help them install.
They don’t understand the concept of distros, just suggest Linux Mint LTS Cinnamon unless they’re curious.
That’s it, spread Linux to as many people as possible. The larger the marketshare, the better support we ALL get. We can fight enshittification. Take the time to spread it but don’t force it on anyone.
AND STOP SCARING PEOPLE AWAY. Linux has no advertising money, it’s up to us.
Offer family members or friends your help or copy and paste the below
how to install linux: 1) copy down your windows product key 2) backup your files to a harddrive 3) install the linux mint cinnamon iso from the linux mint website 4) use etcher (download from its website) to put the iso on a usb flash drive 5) go into bios 6) boot from the usb 7) erase the storage and install 8) press update all in the update manager 9) celebrate. it takes 15 minutes.
edit: LET ME RE-STATE, DO NOT FORCE IT ON ANYONE.
and if someone is at the level of ignorance (not in a derogatory fashion) that they dont know what a file even is genuinely dont bother unless theyre your parents cause youll be tech support for their ‘how do i install the internet’ questions.
If you’re actually expecting people to transition without asking for help on a regular basis, you don’t know people.
You just made yourself their IT guy for life.
And I think there isn’t a good solution to this. Ideally you would enable people to make good choices for themselves, know how to handle the tools they use…
Interesingly enough they come to me to fix their printer and antivirus anyways, and I have no idea of what I’m doing since I haven’t used Windows in like 15 years, except for updating my GPS and filling out time-sheets for work and stuff like that. And in the meantime Microsoft switches things around every few years and bolts on a new interface onto their office suite and then moves it to the cloud. I don’t think it would make any difference if my relatives were using Linux in the first place. They would still need to ask someone to fix their printer drivers and handle big version upgrades. And if it was me at the other end, it would be way more convenient to me to help them.
I stopped advertising Linux to people who didn’t ask me to… I’ll tell them I use different things on my computer and why this software is way better. If they pick up on that and want to try out of their own motivation, I’ll gladly help.
This
No, it’s better to be honest. The average user isn’t ready for Linux, because Linux is not ready for the average user. I’d never try and get someone to use it if they’re not already interested. I hate that it is this way, but it is. Linux is only really for people who already want to use it. Because if you’re not interested in using it, you’re not going to put forth the time investment to gain the benefits from it. No matter what angle I look at it from Linux is not for the average person.
Your second paragraph says it all. Find out if the user needs to dual boot? The answer is obviously “No” because no matter what they’re using the computer for, Linux is unneeded for them, since they have Windows. There are tangible benefits to using Windows, since it runs their software, meanwhile, you failed to list any real benefits to using Linux for the average user. It’s faster? No, not really, since they’ll be learning how to use it, and even ignoring that, it’s not so much faster that they’ll perceive it anyway. It’s more secure? Not really, Windows is the better choice for the average user in that respect, since it’ll automatically force them to restart the machine every week to install security updates. Main choice of professionals? That’s not entirely true, and even if it were, it’s not relevant, the average user is not a professional. And for anyone who already owns a computer already running Windows, Windows was ‘free’ too.
The only time to have this discussion is if the user is having a PC built, and then the answer is also “No” to Linux, because they’re going to buy Windows anyway, since it’s better for gaming, and that’s the primary reason for someone to build a PC, unless they’re doing a specialized task like video editing, and if they are invested enough into the task to want a PC just for that, they have specialized software that almost always runs only on Windows, and even if it were able to run on either, it’s not my place to alter their workflow.
The real elitist attitude is thinking people need to use Linux in the first place. For me and (maybe) you, it might get the job done, but for my family and friends. It’s better that they use what they’re comfortable with. The main point of a computer is to accomplish tasks, and giving them Linux is a hindrance to that.
Linux is great, but it’s not for everyone, and it may never be.
Thank you. Windows is plain better for the average user, and that’s a hard pill for many to swallow. Heck, I force myself to use Linux time to time but I always go back because the Affinity suite and my fingerprint reader only works on Windows. I have no reason to stay on Linux, it’s too limited outside niche cases.
That’s plain wrong. That’s not honest, that’s elitist at best.
No user ever installed windows. So the whole installation and driver thing is a dishonest question.
Even for gaming on a custom PC, just take an amd card and games on steam, it’ll run smoothly.
Browsing Internet and desktop? Works fine on Linux. Fuck office, you don’t need it.
If you need a computer for a specific software, that’s a different matter. But presenting it like everyone is concerned is dishonest.
The security paragraph is complete nonsense. And obnoxiously rebooting is a major hindrance for most people, and it’s not avoidable without the professional licence.
It’s not 2010 anymore.
“Fuck office, you don’t need it.” <- the audacity to assume someone doesn’t need something.
No one needs office unless the company forces it.
No. Mint is fine for my dad who uses a browser and an email program and nothing else. I’m not gonna recommend it to people who do a lot more with their machines. I can tell them I use Linux and they can ask me anything if they are ever curious about making the switch, but that is it. If they don’t make the conscious decision to use Linux, then they won’t stick with it anyways.
I guess this is the purpose of Mint Linux? But I think it has a terminal, emacs, python as well? Then it’s ok. A distro is only a tool for needs. I don’t like this arch-talk, how cool it is and then you need month to write your configuration. By the way: what goes quicker on a laptop: Mint with xcfe or Ubuntu with xfce? I want to have a quicker boot. At the moment Kubuntu on the machine. Too slow.
Mint because Snaps
And Mint because Gnome (shudder)
I am genuinely curious what “more with their machines” actions you found Mint to be lacking in?
I can’t speak for OP, but I remember reading about two years ago that Linux Mint is a poor choice for gaming because Cinnamon’s compositor can’t handle more fast-paced games (even just 60 FPS) and will reduce them to a stuttery mess even if the game’s otherwise running fine. I’m not sure if this is still the case, but I did deal with it back in late 2021.
There was also the stuff about Lutris developers abandoning their support for Mint (in a letter I feel was frankly way too harsh, rude and unprofessional) due to it doing some weird stuff with system packages that made the Lutris program generate weird bugs that couldn’t be replicated in other Ubuntu-derivative distributions. However, that can be circumvented by using the Lutris flatpak.
Honestly, I do hope those are no longer issues. I have a soft spot for Linux Mint since it was the first distro I daily-drove (and has a similar UI to Windows XP my beloved), and even though I don’t use it anymore, I still follow its development from time to time and I’d love to see it getting better and universally usable for everyone.
proprietary software that won’t run under wine
I don’t buy the whole “the more users a software has, the better it gets” rhetoric. Historically this has been the opposite of the case. There’s an even higher users-to-contributors ratio amongst the general population. Not all users share the same respect for the philosophy behind FOSS.
If the driving force behind design decisions becomes “what keeps people happy so they’ll keep using our software” and not “freedom,” there’s now a practical incentive to sell out and introduce more Intellectual Property shenanigans into the ecosystem. After all, it’s a lot easier to hire devs and churn out new features and keep the software actively developed for the foreseeable future if there’s money in it. And the only way there can be money in it is if there are proprietary licenses shitting up the place, and Shit As A Service suscription models as far as the eye can see.
Linux always has been, and should always continue to be, about freedom. If that freedom comes with user-friendliness, great! If not, then we have to pay the price: taking responsibility for the tools and tech we use and learning how to use them properly and contributing to them to maintain a community of likeminded people. Otherwise, we’re not worthy of the freedom and the responsibilities it entails.
I get your point about elitism and gatekeeping. We’re no better than Windows users or Mac users or any other OS’ users. We just have a set of values unique to our community, and they have sets of values that differ. We also shouldn’t be throwing users under the bus in the name of politics, but part of what makes Linux slightly more bearable is the way the driving philosophy of Free Software is evident throughout. Linux is better than it could be because it attracts the people who want to be here for the community’s values, not the people who have to be coaxed and coerced into accepting the values to use the “best”/“easiest”/“friendliest” software.
This. GNU/Linux should be sold on the premise of the values of software freedom.
Stuff like:
Imagine being able to take a piece of software to any programmer you know or can find to fix a bug, or add something, or improve something, the same way you can take your car to any mechanic. And if you’re inclined, you can even work yourself. Think of how liberating that would be for the world’s communities.
Stuff like that
OK I’m searching in vain for the mega-upvote button.
I would add that desktop Linux only exists today as an alternative to Windows because of those values. This history of Linux desktop environments and applications is rife with examples of popular or personally important bits of software that were forked and kept alive by the freedom granted by FLOSS licensing.
If “Linux” was a thing that MS could have bought and then destroyed or enshittified, they’d have done it twenty years ago. And make no mistake, they continue to play the long game.
Yes, we should all be good to newcomers. No, the direction of desktop Linux should not be steered by wanting more of them. It should be steered by a need to provide desktop Linux for people who enjoy using desktop Linux.
I wish Free Software, Free Society were mandatory reading…
❤️
PDF: https://www.gnu.org/doc/Press-use/fsfs3-hardcover.pdf
Physical: https://shop.fsf.org/ (when it’s back open)
It’s already dominant on the servers.
This is gonna cause more harm than good. The reason people think it’s techy is because it is. I would recommend linux to my grandma and someone who loves tech. The middleground runs into a lot of issues for doing anything beyond basic computer stuff.
This post gives me the vibe of someone desperately trying to get people to buy the cryptocurrency they’re invested in. Particularly the part where only the good is mentioned and the bad is omitted.
Some linux people are pretty elitist though, and it’s not helping the cause. but in the same way, i dont think pretending that it’s the greatest thing since sliced tea is much better.
The Lemmy Linux Community is elitist about Linux, I mean I told them I can’t find a file comparators on Linux I got downvotes , out of 4 , 1 solutions is use of Terminal(not a basic user would want to do) , 1 is claiming windows is bad and 1 might be a solutions.
But yah I got the downvotes from LINUX Bros. Dudes needs to just admit linux läcka programs and simplicity of use for general use.
Part of me thinks you’re being unreasonable, because that question did receive decent responses (1 CLI + GUI suggestion, 1 GUI suggestion, and 2 beginning to try troubleshoot the drive access problem).
But I suspect it’s just a dissonance in perspectives, maybe due to your Linux distro causing a bunch of stupid issues, which haven’t been properly noticed by anyone yet.
It’s a shame that some distros like Ubuntu have enshittified so badly that they’ve become unsupportable. (Nothing seems to work rationally – the same reason I find it impossible to support users on Windows).
Advocates and potential/new users alike, need to consider specific distributions, not just “Linux”.
Less people, less developers, less software. Gatekeepers seem to prefer to keep it worse, than get the obvious benefits of more users.
If Linux had the most and Windows the least users, it’d probably be in the same boat with the less ease of use in many cases.
True on both counts.
People who daily drive Linux are not the ones who spread the old idea that it’s “too techy”.
I admittedly don’t have many conversation about Linux with people, but yeah the ones I do have are usually me trying to convince people that it’s less techy and scary than they think it is. One person asked me how I do everything if it’s only text. They thought Linux was literally just the terminal with no UI at all. I had to be like “no dude, it’s like everything else. You can just install Firefox or Chrome or whatever you want.”
It’s still techy, here two recent problems I faced with still no solution’( specially with only Gui)
- Try to put Programs such as Firefox , emby in startup of linux
- Find a folder comparison software, let it feels nd external drive ATTACHED TO LAPTOP and compare two folders on it.
and every time I say Linux is not usefull for simple use i get downvotes all the time . Cause Linux bro dudes can do it with terminal so easy… Well guess what linux dudes , its hard for performing many tasks which are simple enough on windows/Mac heck even on Android ( which is Linux also I know) , but desktop Linux has looooooooooooooong way to be normal os in households
Find a folder comparison software [with only Gui]
A quick web search (even without ‘graphical’) turned up pages suggesting meld in the first few results.
Try to put Programs such as Firefox , emby in startup of linux
Ignore me if you’re not still looking for solutions.
IIRC, some distros have a way to do this through the gui, some don’t. I’m on LMDE, and it thankfully does have a gui to set startup programs.
But all distros should be able to do this. Here are some a common ways:
https://operavps.com/docs/run-command-after-boot-in-linux/
Instead of a complicated script, your command would literally just be “firefox”, or “emby”. You might need to search for what the command for a given program is.
It’s nowhere near as simple as it should be, but it is certainly possible.
There’s 0 need for Linux to grow. It powers 80% of new web-apps, runs the big gaming systems, parts of azure and aws. It’s the go-to server os for most use-cases.
The Linux desktop needs to mature if it’s to grow. Non-tech users don’t care for “new and innovative ux paradigms”. They don’t wanna scan the internet to figure out why sound is missing after upgrading to pop_os 4. That or they need someone close by to fix it for free
My partner’s Linux box runs fine and has had no faults that needed my help in the 10 years it’s been showing her news, email, and web
It’s a lot more stable than it was years and years ago
Is it Debian?
Ubuntu, if I need to reset it, it’ll be Debian/gnome
I installed ubuntu onto a mini pc and spent days trying just to get the sound to work but gave up and went back to Mac
I don’t often suggest Linux to friends or family, because I don’t want to be on the hook for tech support. I also don’t want to be the blamed party when they inevitably give up, and be obligated to reinstall their old OS.
Linux is growing naturally. There’s little reason to suggest it to someone who won’t benefit from it.
EDIT: I want to clarify, I appreciate the spirit of your post. But I also want to call out, that it just isn’t the best choice for most people.
fair enough
Things are fine until one day they need to plug this random peripheral/accessory and it’s not plug and play. Then they hate you forever
You’re totally right for brand new kit, but for older kit I’ve found that’s swung hard in the opposite direction.
For example, I was trying to help someone at the weekend setting up some old audio kit, a few printers and a slide scanner on their mac system, and it was a nightmare, and half of it’s still not working.
You’re constantly getting stuck with "this device only works with these 3 versions of this software and those versions of software only works on these versions of MacOS and these versions of MacOS only work with these models of Mac.
When I tested the devices on my laptop (Linux Mint), everything was detected instantly and worked with several different pieces of software (at least as far as you can test in a few minutes).
As said, I get that’s not the case with newest kit, or kit that requires special proprietary software, but for a lot of older equipment, I absolutely can’t fault it.
If someone comes to me I’m more than happy to answer questions and help, but I won’t bring it up. People don’t like being told that their tool of choice is “bad” “not optimal” or anything like that. Even if it’s only their choice because they grew up with it or don’t want to learn anything new. And they still need to learn if it’s more than browsing the web.
Also I really don’t want to be the one they come running to once something doesn’t work the way they expected - or not at all. I don’t have the time nor the inclination to be tech support for my family and half of my friends.
This is the same as how I am. People know I’m “the Linux guy”, but I don’t preach it. I don’t try to get friends and family to switch operating systems. That’s like trying to get someone to switch to your favourite brand of underpants. The whole ethos behind Linux is the freedom of choice. If someone wants to learn more about it, I’m happy to point them to helpful resources, but they need to make the decision on their own, and choose for themselves. I won’t install it for them, because I don’t want to deal with the “where are all my pictures are gone?”, or “why doesnt my scanner work anymore?”
casually mentions how i run linux. other person. that’s cool. continues with windows.
if they don’t want to hear it, they don’t want to hear it. but if they do, they know they can ask.
No. Make them use it. Force them. Hit them if you need to. Make sure they do an Arch install without any scripts and don’t help them
Look at them harshly thoughout the whole interaction and let them know they are less then us.
I went through Arch install and I’m doing just fine, thanks. They just moved me out of the ICU to a new unit called “Palliative”. It’s quite comfy.
Welcome to the club. You’re a real Linux user now.
I don’t think anyone who isn’t already curious about Linux should install Linux. And I sure as hell am not going to try to convince anyone and be blamed for not being able to use adobe products.
I would make an exception for the type of people who only use their computer for the internet. People like my parents, who do about 98% of everything through a browser, and occasionally write a letter.
For someone like them, Linux is ideal. Just explain that Firefox is the internet and rename the office shortcuts, and they wouldn’t notice a difference.
thats a huge portion of people too
Build an automatic Linux mint installer that can handle most typical configurations and migrate data and apps from windows (with wine)
Get some oldish windows exploits together.
Build a worm that replaced vulnerable windows systems with mint
???
Profit (3 free meals a day and TV for the rest of your life)
Install a theme that looks like the Windows version it replaced
fucking genius
People can make their own choices. I have 6-7 Linux machines, and asked my brother to install it too. He hated the experience. He bought a Mac at the end, and he’s very happy with it. Some people just don’t want Linux. They don’t care about its philosophy, or that it’s free. They want an ecosystem, and a status symbol.
I’m a Linux user and fan for a lot of years now. Software engineer by profession.
It’s not ready for widespread adoption to the less tech-savvy masses.
It misses some functionality that is really hard to get right but is absolutely expected to get right. For example: graceful suspend and wakeups. It happens so often even to me that I close my Linux laptop for the day, next morning open it up to a bunch of warnings and error messages about Bluetooth adapters or whatever the device of the day that wants to malfunction is that prevents a sound S2 S3 sleep.
I don’t get freaked out about it. But grandma sure would. And yet my 10 year old MacBook Pro gets it right every single fucking time; completely flawlessly. This is the bar of usability that Linux has to achieve for widespread adoption as a true, polished, personal computing experience.
edit: meant S3 sleep.
It also doesn’t help that doing anything in Linux requires weird little guys like “mv” or “mkdir” or “chmod 777”
